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The Sinking of HMS Hythe - 28 October 1915

26/10/2012

85 Comments

 
PictureCaptain David Salomons
There are countless instances in all wars of tragic wholesale loss of life. In this part of Kent, a terrible blow was dealt to the community of High Brooms,
Southborough and Tunbridge Wells when a large number of men died in an accidental collision with another British troopship, only seventeen days after
they had left from home to join the conflict in Turkey.

Ninety-seven years ago, on 28 October 1915, the troopship HMS Hythe was sunk approaching the Dardanelles. HMS Sarnia, another troopship steaming away from shore after disembarking her troops, collided with the Hythe, which went down in ten minutes. The Hythe was sailing without lights in order to avoid detection by Turkish batteries on the shore. There were 275 men on board including crew, and 154 of them drowned. 129 of these were men of the 1st/3rd Kent Field Company, Royal Engineers, from Tunbridge Wells, Southborough, and the surrounding region. Twenty-four of them are named on Southborough War Memorial.

The Company's initial training took place in Sheffield Hall, Draper Street, Southborough, then in the former gasworks in Speldhurst Road, later converted by Sir David Salomons at his personal expense into a well-equipped drill hall. Sir David was Honorary Colonel of the Kent (Fortress) Royal Engineers. The Company left their depot at Gillingham on 11 October 1915, and sailed from Devonport the following day in the converted liner Scotian, not
knowing that the government was already preparing to abandon the Gallipoli operation as a lost cause. During the voyage, Captain David Salomons, the only son of Sir David, wrote of his pride in the men, though fearing few appreciated the dangers into which they were sailing. The men were transferred to HMS Hythe, a converted cross-Channel ferry, on the morning of 28 October.

PictureFrederick Somers
The Company was formed from Territorials, so few of them were regular soldiers, though some, like Frederick Somers, 37, had served formerly in the Boer War. Fred worked as a plumber and was also a volunteer fireman.

The Army officers were allowed to enter the engine room for warmth for most of the journey, and the men crowded the decks, the drivers to the fore well deck and the sappers to aft during the passage. Accounts speak of being very crowded, almost shoulder to shoulder. Because of the weather and the choppy seas, an awning was erected from side to side of the
Hythe to provide some overhead cover against rain and spray, and many of the soldiers huddled underneath. The men did as many other soldiers have done when together and nowhere to go; they talked, sang popular songs, slept if they could or sat with private thoughts and wishes for the future. This was very much a  family unit, with many knowing each other through school, cricket team, football team, living in the same road etc.

Driver Fred Mills, from Speldhurst, was one of those who watched the disaster unfold and
survived. He saw the Sarnia bearing down on the Hythe just seconds before the collision. The Hythe’s crew had just time to give a warning blast on the siren  before the heavier ship hit them forward of the bridge, ploughing into the little vessel’s side, almost cutting her in two. The Hythe’s commander, sensing that the ship was about to go down, called to
Captain Salomons, “Come on, jump. This is your last chance. I am going now." But Salomons stood firm, saying, “No, I will see my men safe first”. He was seen with Company Sergeant Major John Carter, trying to launch a lifeboat. They stood on the bridge, Salomons exhorting his men to keep cool and try to save themselves. They went down with the ship as it slid under the waves.

Fred Mills recalled:"I think I can sacredly say that he died trying for others as he was with the other officers who were saved. Our Major had to take to the water only but for remaining almost to the last, and I am told he wanted the Captain to follow. One of the Sappers who was late himself in leaving the ship as she was sinking said the last he saw of him was trying to lower a boat. If he was not thinking of others one would imagine he would have gone straight for his own Life Belt of which he had a beauty and would be impossible for him to sink in that time. It is my own opinion if he had of thought of himself first he would have been saved, and if I am right he died a hero’s death and we honour him.”

A large number of men who lived along Silverdale Road in High Brooms died in the Hythe disaster. It is recalled anecdotally that the postman delivering news of their death along this road became so overwhelmed by the distress his delivery was causing that he turned back to his depot before he had completed his round.


PictureHarry Goldbaum
Harry Goldbaum, just seventeen when he drowned, was the Trumpeter for the unit, and gained his place because another boy's mother would not let him go as underage. Harry was believed to have worked on the Salomons estate in Southborough, his parents being resident in Stepney.

PictureThomas Godsmark
The family of Thomas Godsmark, twenty-one years old, believed that he drowned because he would not leave the horses in his care. Thomas Handley, nineteen years old, worked for the Co-operative Society in Tunbridge Wells and was a keen footballer, playing for St. Luke's Football Club. His father, a railway porter, had died in the Boer War in 1900.


PictureThomas Handley, seated, at family wedding
A marble plaque  was unveiled a year later to the day at the Drill Hall, Speldhurst Road on 28 October 1916. It had been commissioned and paid for by Sir David Salomons. It was removed in the 1950s to avoid damage to it, and traced, returned and placed in St Matthew's Church in High Brooms, Tunbridge Wells in October 1965. Rededication took place,
attended by five survivors of the Hythe, as a result of the naming of Hythe Close in London Road, Southborough.

The men are also commemorated on the Helles Memorial, on the Gallipoli Peninsula in Turkey as well as their home war memorials in Kent. Two houses,
Hythe (No 8) and Sarnia (No 6), in Gordon Road, High Brooms were built in the 1930s for a survivor of the Hythe disaster, Edmund Cavie.


For many years, on 28th October, the survivors of the Hythe disaster, and the families of those lost, paraded from the Drill Hall in Speldhurst  Road (now
the site of the New Life Church) to Southborough War Memorial, to honour the dead, but this practice was discontinued in the 1960s, no doubt due to old age and a lack of public participation.

Frank Stevens of Tonbridge has worked very hard to record the story of the Hythe disaster. His excellent book
Southborough Sappers of the Kent (Fortress) Royal Engineers includes a great deal of carefully-researched detail for anyone interested in reading further on the subject. Frank will be speaking about the Hythe disaster at a meeting of the Southborough Society on 15 January 2013.


85 Comments
how to remove skin tags link
7/1/2013 06:02:34 pm

Thanks for such a brief explanation on Hythe disaster. Can you please give us some more explanation on the Gallipoli operation.

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Judith Johnson link
8/1/2013 04:53:48 am

Thank you for your comment. My research for the Southborough War Memorial was necessarily restricted because of the high number of names, and I am not an expert on the Gallipoli operation. As mentioned in the blog, I would refer you to Frank Stevens for more detail on this particular aspect. For more detail on the Gallipoli campaign itself, I would suggest you check out any of the many written works - via your Search engine of choice!

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Mandy De Fields
3/3/2014 01:38:28 pm

I have been researching a number of family members and came across this information on the Hythe. As it happens, I am a great granddaughter of the Hythe's Commander Arthur H Bird. Do you have any other information about him?

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Judith Johnson link
6/3/2014 03:02:31 am

Hi Mandy - how fascinating to hear from you, with such a significant connection to the Hythe's Commander. I don't know any more about Arthur H Bird - may I suggest you contact the Southborough Society? I'm sure they will be able to direct your query to someone who does! Their website is http://www.southboroughsociety.co.uk

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Clare Caless
8/9/2015 05:49:25 am

Dear Ms De Fields
Judith Johnson has sent me the link to her blog so that I can let you know St Matthew's Church in High Brooms, Tunbridge Wells is holding a service to commemorate the Centenary of the sinking of HMS Hythe on Saturday 31st October 2015 at 3pm. You and any members of your family would be most welcome to attend. If you care to give me your postal address, I can send you a more formal invitation.
There will be refreshments afterwards in our Church Centre and the Southborough Society is organising a display of archive material relating to the incident. If you would like to come, then do let me know. My email is office@stmattschurch.org.uk and me telephone number is 01892 618108. Yours sincerely
Clare Caless
Administrator/St Matthew's Church

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FG
25/8/2017 06:16:06 pm

Lieutenant Commander Arthur Henry Bird (1876-1955) was the first owner of our house, which be built in Vancouver in 1913 but had to leave when WWI broke out. I would be happy to share what information I have with you.

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John Brace
1/4/2014 10:58:49 pm

Very interest account, my Great Grandfather was Albert Buurows who was Leading Trimmer on the HMS Hythe. My Grandmother was on 2 at the time of her father's death celebrated her 101st birthday last Sunday and must be one of the last living connection to this disaster.

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Judith Johnson link
2/4/2014 04:06:09 am

Thank you John. Wonderful to hear from another descendant, and amazing that your grandmother, with her direct connection, is still with us. I will email you further.

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John Dawes
7/4/2014 02:59:43 am

In researching Hawkhurst War Memorial names for WWI articles in Hawkhurst Village Magazine, Sapper Herbert Mills (of Tunbridge Wells and Royal Engineers) is listed. He drowned in the HMS Hythe 1915 disaster and as you write about Driver Fred Mills (maybe one and the same) I'm emailing to see if you wish to contribute any words or pics. I can send you pdf's of a WWI item published in the magazine, if you wish. David Hughes HMS Hythe Disaster pdf 2008 quotes Mills H as one of the men who perished.

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Judith Johnson link
7/4/2014 05:38:17 am

Thanks for your comment, John. The person you should contact is Frank Stevens (see blog), as he has researched all of the men on the Hythe. I will email you his address.

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mike davies
18/6/2014 03:40:28 pm

territorial war medal to 1024 Stanley Arthur Kimber from Southborough killed on HMS Hythe is for sale on ebay
No 231262464995
regards Mike

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Judith Johnson link
19/6/2014 04:00:40 am

Thank you very much for this information, Mike. I have passed it on to a dedicated collector of medals awarded to local men. He will be very glad to know.

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Beverley Kane
10/8/2014 03:31:43 pm

An interesting account - my grandmother's first husband was Frank Reader who served on the Hythe and drowned that night. As next year will be 100 years on, I would be interested to hear of any services or events in commemoration.

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Judith Johnson link
11/8/2014 12:37:54 am

Thanks Beverley! Great to hear from another relative. Frank Stevens' book has a nice smiling picture of Frank Reader and a paragraph about him. Wonder if family still living in Tonbridge area? Re Hythe commemorations: Firstly, the excellent band Virgin Soldiers has written a community musical, The Dreamers, about Capt Salomon and the Hythe disaster which will be on at the Assembly Hall, Tunbridge Wells this October (see http://www.virginsoldiers.com/thedreamersuk). Secondly, there will be some commemoration in Tunbridge Wells October 2015 - organised jointly I think by Heritage Tunbridge Wells and Southborough Town Council.

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Beverley Kane
11/8/2014 01:16:26 am

Thanks, Judith... I will watch out for further information.
I'm in touch with Frank's grandchildren who have spread far afield from sussex to Cyprus!
But Frank and his comrades have not been forgotten which is the important thing.

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Dean Bennett
24/10/2014 11:41:23 pm

Hi Judy,
My great,great grandfather was killed on the Hythe
Lance Corporal Harry Parker 1990 1st/3rd Kent Field Company Royal Engineers.
I was wondering if you could give me contact info for Frank Stevens as i would really like his book. Unfortunatley i have never seen a photo of my GG grandfather and am really hoping one does exist somewhere.
Thanks Dean.

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Judith Johnson link
28/10/2014 02:25:30 am

Hi Dean
Great to hear from you. There is a small photo of your GG Grandfather in Frank's book. You can write to Frank Stevens c/o FAST, 34 Ridgeway Crescent, Tonbridge TN10 4NR

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Dean Bennett
28/10/2014 05:33:01 am

Hello Judy,
Thank you so much for your reply, That is amazing news about a photo I can not wait to see it.
Thanks
Dean.

Dean Bennett
1/11/2014 07:20:30 pm

Hi Judy
While continuing with my research into my GG Grandfather Harry Parker I have found the Tunbridge Wells Roll of Honour. It states under Harrys name that on the Southborough memorial he is listed as Henry William Parker. Can you confirm this is correct, and if so do you have any information about him in your book.
Thanks
Dean.

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Judith Johnson link
1/11/2014 11:40:47 pm

Hi Dean - Henry William Parker on SWM is definitely not the same as Harry Parker who drowned on the Hythe, though, oddly coincidentally, he also died by drowning. Very few hard copies of my book left now, but you can get it on Kindle. All best, Judith.

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Kate
14/11/2016 07:21:29 am

At St Luke's Church Remembrance Service yesterday I stood up and held a small white cross to represent 'Driver H Parker' in the roll call of the local men who died in WW1. It would be wonderful to know if this is the Harry Parker mentioned above by his relative.

Joan Varley
17/11/2014 12:25:42 am

I believe there is a memorial specifically for HMS Hythe, can you tell me where it is? I'm interested in information on T. Langridge who died during the disaster.

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Judith Johnson link
19/11/2014 04:09:12 am

Hi Joan. The marble memorial to the Hythe is at the back of St Matthew's Church in High Brooms. T Langridge is mentioned, with photo, in Frank Stevens' book. Please see above for details of where to write for a copy.

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Chris
24/12/2014 07:43:26 am

Hi Judith,

I'm Chris, the midweek night porter/security at the Sir David Salomons Estate. You probably know this already, but all the rooms here at Salomons are named after either people or things connected to the Salomons family and the best room on the top floor is called Hythe. There is also a small museum given over to the family which is open to the public FOC. If anyone wants to come down and take a look, they are more than welcome.

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Judith Johnson link
26/12/2014 04:06:14 am

Thanks for getting in touch, Chris, and for leaving a comment. I have visited the Museum, and this blog had links to all the info about Salomons, but I see now that they no longer work, which must be since Christchurch University sold the Salomons Estate. I will endeavour to correct this soon. Glad to hear the new owners are honouring the original bequest by Vera Salomons which requested the Museum be open to visitors in perpetuity.

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TonyC link
14/4/2015 01:19:14 pm

this is a lovely piece about the Hythe. I lost 5 relatives on the Hythe, the Funnells (2 brother and 2 cousins) and a Crittenden. I am planning a blog post on ANZAC Day (I now live in Australia) and would like (with your express permission of course) to include a precis of some of the information on your page. I would also provide a hyperlink to your page in my post. Please confirm if you are happy for me to do this
Regards

tony

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Judith Johnson link
17/4/2015 07:19:45 am

Thank you for your kind words, Tony. Of course you are more than welcome to precis the information, and thank you for offering to hyperlink. Please let me know when your blog is written as I'd be very interested to read it.

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Trevor Thorpe
26/4/2015 07:04:19 am

With current interest in the Centenary of the Galliopoli campaign I came across your excellent website when searching for the date of the "Hythe" tragedy, sadly one of many during the campaign I feel.

Driver Fred Mills quoted by you was my maternal Great Grandfather. My mother tells me that, whenever recounting the story of the sinking and his escape to safety he usually finished with "... and I jumped and I jumped and I jumped from here to b****y Langton Green to get off that boat!".

His son, my Grandfather and also Fred, overstated his age by a year (as did many others) to enlist and served in the Lincolnshire Regiment. He also had a close escape receiving a bullet in his shoulder in February 1918. This was claimed by him to have been due to "friendly fire", allegedly whilst undertaking an act worthy of a V.C. although unfortunately no one saw him do it!

He served in the Army until 1920, still overstating his age, and was the village butcher in Speldhurst, and then in latter years on the petrol pumps at Ward's and Birchwood Garages in Southborough.

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Judith Johnson link
27/4/2015 02:35:17 am

Wow, how great to hear from you, Trevor! Thank you for your kind words and for the wonderful extra detail about your family! There will be some events in Southborough this year to commemorate the 100th Anniversary of the Hythe Disaster - keep your eye on the internet!

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Hugh Alsop
8/6/2015 02:58:43 am

My great uncle, Bob Ruddle, born app 1895 at Glastonbury, Somerset. Served as a Driver wioth the R.E's, perished on the Hythe, leaving a widow in the Tunbridge area. Would there be any further info you could share with me? I have a picture of the Hythe Memorial Plaque, but nothing more. His name was never mentioned in my early years and I should like to plot any facts in my family tree.
Thank you, Hugh Alsop

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Emma Pierce
11/6/2015 08:56:44 pm

Hi Hugh,
Although I do not know any additional information for you, my great great grandmas 1st husband was also a driver in the R.E's, his name appears 2nd below your great uncle! Albert Skinner, would love to share any information in the future if we find any!
(my grandma was left widowed and eventually re-married to continue the family as it is today.)

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Alysoun i Chandler
28/1/2022 02:16:49 pm

Hi Emma it sounds like we share some family My nana was a Skinner her father died in the Hythe disaster. Albert Edward Skinner. My nana was Enid May Roberts nee Skinner. The name Worzel and Ruddle also i believe is part of my family names.

Karen Plumbley-Jones
10/6/2015 06:35:16 am

Hi Judith. Thank you for all this interesting information. My great uncle, Charles Ashdown, died on HMS Hythe aged 20. He lived at 120 Silverdale Rd and it was very moving to read about the postman delivering the terrible news to the families there. If you have any more information about him, I'd love to hear from you.

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Judith Johnson link
12/6/2015 07:59:41 pm

Wow, I am very pleased to hear from more descendants of the Hythe men - thank you all for leaving comments! In answer to all of your requests, I would, again, recommend you think about buying a copy of Frank Stevens' book Southborough Sappers. He worked incredibly hard to put it together and I think he sells copies for about £10. His address is 34 Ridgeway Crescent, Tonbridge TN10 4NR, or I think Mr Books in Tonbridge also sells copies. His website is http://www.mrbooks.co.uk . Frank's book has something on each of the men who died, many of them include a small photo. And after all, many people pay £10 for coffee and a muffin for two! His book is worth it if you want a record for your family bookshelf, in my view!

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GREGG
11/7/2015 06:46:10 pm

Went to see Dreamers last night at st james theatre at the rear of buckingham palace. Have had the honour of having lunch with frank stevens and discussing his dedecation to the disaster. My wife adding further info on Robert Farnes who perished. How is Frank these days ? .he did not use a computer when we met at Tonbridge so if someone has details to contact him other than writing to him ,wish him all the best andcongratulate him on all his sterling work gregg & heather (nee Farnes )

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Judith Johnson link
28/8/2015 04:57:55 am

Hi Gregg, and thank you for your comment. I'm not in regular touch with Frank so writing probably still the best option!

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Richard Salter link
13/8/2015 03:35:47 am

First Name WILLIAM
Last Name SALTER
Birth Year 1896
From Stuart Rd, High brooms,Tunbridge Wells
This was my Great Grandfathers Son who was also one of the men who died.

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Judith Johnson link
28/8/2015 04:55:54 am

Hi Richard - thank you for getting in touch. It's always especially touching to hear from a relative of one of the men. Are you living in the area? I am doing a walk for the Heritage Weekend around High Brooms which will include William's former home. Saturday 12 September starting at 2.30pm from St Matthew's Primary School.

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Richard
13/7/2021 11:38:17 am

Only just seen this post 6 years later. I live in Gozo, Malta. One of the stop off's for the ship probably? I would have loved to have gone on that walk. No 10 they lived all 11 of them, my grandfather being the youngest. My Great Grandfather was in the AOC as a farrier in Jerusalem.

Clare Caless
8/9/2015 05:54:16 am

Please note that St Matthew's Church, High Brooms will be holding a service to commemorate the Centenary of the sinking of HMS Hythe on Saturday 31st October 2015 at 3pm. There will be refreshments afterwards in the Church Centre and the Southborough Society are putting on a display of archive material relating to the incident.
If anyone wishes to attend, please can they let me know for catering purposes? My email is office@stmattschurch.org.uk and my telephone number is 01892 618108.
Many thanks,
Clare Caless
Administrator/St Matthew's Church

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Alison Sandford MacKenzie link
15/10/2015 05:19:45 am

Hello

You may also be interested to know that on the evening of 31st October at 7.30pm at St Thomas's Church, Southborough, there will be a concert of words and music by the CREATE Community Choir to commemorate the Centenary of the Hythe disaster. All are welcome. Tickets are £8 (Concessions £6), to include light refreshments, and are available from 07966 190428 or tickets@camdenroad.org, as is further information.

With best wishes
Alison Sandford MacKenzie

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kathleen pearce
22/3/2016 02:12:37 pm

my great uncle was a stoker first class on the hms hythe and died in the engine room we believe is there anyway to find out anymore information on him many thanks

john albert feddon stoker 1st class c/kx155573

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Emma
22/3/2016 03:34:08 pm

Check the out the book, he might me in it

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Judith Johnson link
23/3/2016 11:37:44 am

Hi Kathleen - thanks for getting in touch. Your great uncle's name is not listed in Southborough Sappers, but since Frank Stevens is the expert on the Hythe I recommend you write to him and see if he can help you. See my comment above (12/6/15) for his contact details.

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Kathleen Pearce
23/3/2016 11:40:27 am

Yes I'm slightly confused as wondering of there was another hms hythe as his date of death is saying he died 11.10.1943 on the hms hythe x

Lesley Elsley
19/4/2016 01:08:13 am

I have noticed John Albert Feddon's name on Ancestry and wondered whethr he had any connection to the Feddons in my family. My father and grandfather were both George Feddon Morison and I have discovered more on my family tree. My Feddons originated in Dalston Cumberland. My father George Feddon Morison was born in Carlisle which is about 4 miles from Dalston. One of his grandmothers was Fanny Feddon. There were other Feddon families in Carlisle who I didn't think were related to us ,but in all probability were!

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Kathleen pearce
19/4/2016 01:15:43 am

Im not sure to be honest as only just started looking into the family i know most have come from cumwhinton in carlisle and my grandad cousin owned the village post office my cousins daughter is on here too asking about the family

Emma
22/3/2016 03:35:04 pm

Really appreciate the work you put into this Judith

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Judith Johnson link
23/3/2016 11:38:25 am

Thank you Emma, that's very kind of you!

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Judith Johnson link
23/3/2016 11:44:49 am

Ah yes, Kathleen - that is the WW2 Minesweeper - see here for further details: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Hythe_(J194) .
The National Maritime Museum might be able to help further? Good luck!

Kathleen pearce
19/4/2016 01:17:38 am

Just checked she is on ancestry and her grandad is steve feddon who is my mums brother if you find the comment they will probably know more as he has beenresearching alot longer

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Judith Johnson link
20/4/2016 10:37:22 am

Glad to see family members connecting via this Blog! Good to be of service!

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kathleen pearce
20/4/2016 11:00:33 am

yes unfortunately that part of the family aint talking at the moment so im basically doing this blind as cant ask grandparents as they passed

Rachel Gifford
1/10/2017 07:08:36 am

My grandmas cousin was a Stoker on the Hythe, he was called Thomas Curley and came from Middlesbrough and he died. It just seems so needless!

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Judith Johnson link
4/2/2018 05:06:10 am

Thank you for your comment, Rachel. Indeed it does...

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Pamela McVey
25/1/2018 12:45:24 am

Greetings all from Northern Ontario, Canada.
Sadly, my g.g.grandfather, Albert Wakeford, was also killed during the sinking of the Hythe. He was 37, married and left behind 5 orphaned children. One was my Mom’s mother, Alice.
Mom grew up in Rusthall and worked at Romary’s Biscuit Company in Tunbridge Wells. She married a very handsome soldier from the Canadian prairies in 1945. She came to Canada in 1946 as an English warbride and she and Dad lived happily together for 64 yrs.
Thank you for helping me learn part of my family history. Good job.

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Judith Johnson link
25/1/2018 09:59:13 am

Hi Pamela, and thanks so much for your comment. Fascinating to hear about your mother working at Romary's Biscuit factory. I'd never heard of this, but found a great blog:
http://bakingforbritain.blogspot.co.uk/2007/06/tunbridge-wells-wafers-or-romary.html

Lovely too to hear about more of the family history of Albert Wakeford. There's some nice detail in Frank Stevens' book (see above), including a small photograph.

Lastly, thank you very much for your kind and encouraging words!


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Michael Huffman II
21/1/2021 04:20:14 pm

Great article Judith. I can't seem to find the book for sale anywhere. Is there any way you can send me a link? And if it's not available is there any chance you could let me know what the passage about Albert Wakeford says?

Michael Huffman II
21/1/2021 04:15:57 pm

Hey Pamela. I'm a far off relative of yours from Pennsylvania apparently! Albert Roland, who is Albert Henry's oldest son, is my great grandmas father. What a tragedy this was.

My great grandma wrote a bunch of us a family history years ago. There's not much about Albert Henry in here because his son who was only 13 when his father died, never spoke of him to his children. But I thought you might appreciate what I have so here goes

"I didn't know my Grandad Wakeford. He was a carter on a farm. The farm was in Speldhurst and he had to walk from Rusthall to his work and back. Quote a long way on foot! He was living at 6 Salisbury Road with his family at that time. My dad never spoke to me of his father. My dad's eldest sister Ellen Kate we called "Cis" did tell Marjorie her daughter a few things. But in old age she didn't want to speak of days gone by. She did once say she would walk from Rusthall to Speldhurst to take her Dad his lunch and thing of cold tea. He would tell her the names of the wild flowers, the birds and trees. It seems he must have loved the country side. He would take bunches of wild flowers home for gran but he always had to put them in water himself. As Marjorie said, he probably put them on a jam pot. By the little we were told about him I can imagine him as a kind and gentle man. He has a lovely face in the photograph. We feel that we missed out on a lovely granddad."

I hope this reaches you and you enjoy it.

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Judith Johnson link
22/1/2021 11:52:27 am

Hi Michael - thank you very much for the lovely bit of Wakeford family history that you've added here and for your kind words. I hope too that Pamela will see the post. Frank Stevens self-published his book 'Southborough Sappers of the Kent (Fortress) Royal Engineers, and I haven't been in touch with him for several years. Can I suggest that you email The Southborough Society? They may be able to help you if they have copies available. If not do get back to me. Their website is: https://southboroughsociety.org.uk/ and they are also on Facebook

GARRY WILLIAMS
21/1/2022 07:37:38 am

Hi michael, not sure you will pick this up, albert henry was my great grandfather, my mother is still alive,margaret williams nee wakeford..

Her mum and dad passed on the kings scroll and original photo of him in uniform tot her and she has since gifted them to me, as I have military connections. A surprise that you live in Penn as my sister and nieces, nephews all live there. Get in touch if you read this.

GARRY WILLIAMS
21/1/2022 07:26:53 am

Hi, Albert was my great grandfather, my mother is still alive, mageret Williams nee wakeford. I was aware there mybe a family connection to canada. Pse get in touch

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Alexine
16/4/2018 03:24:44 am

Hi, I work for a local housing association and are aware that Hythe Close flats are named after the HMS Hythe tragedy. We wanted to write an article about it and explain why the blocks are so called and wondered if you would be happy for me to use some of the information in your article and direct people to your post/blog for more information? Many thanks

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Judith Johnson link
16/4/2018 05:37:17 am

Hi Alexine, thanks for getting in touch. Yes, I'd be very happy for you to do that, and appreciate your askiing. Good luck with the article, and I'd love to read it when it's published. All best, Judith

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Alexine
24/4/2018 03:01:11 am

Thanks Judith - much appreciated. I'll send you a copy of the email that we send out so you can see. Many thanks Alexine

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Prof John Simons
3/8/2018 12:48:10 am

Thank you very much for this short history. My great-grandfather Albert Harmer was killed on the Hythe and I grew up nearly half a century later knowing his widow and of course many of his children who were my great aunts. They are all long gone of course but it's wonderful that this episode is still remembered. I was curious to look up the Hythe as I'm just looking at a new book of photos of the Gallipoli battlefields and it isn't mentioned - I assume there is no visible sign of the wreck. Thanks again - from a wintery Tasmania.

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Judith Johnson link
13/8/2018 12:06:30 pm

Thank you very much for your comment, Prof Simons, much appreciated. Great to hear from a descendant, and from Tasmania! There are three Harmers mentioned in Frank Steven's book: Frank, Frederick James and William, all with photos and all with different parents listed, so perhaps cousins. Perhaps Albert's name was not included, in error? Often happened.

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Prof John Simons
13/8/2018 03:08:39 pm

You're quite right Judith. My great grandfather was Fred Harmer. Albert was another of a very large family and I misremembered them. The scroll of honour showing the Helles Memorial that my family received after the war is currently on tour in a Gallipoli Centenary art show going round Australia. Fred's son Kitchener was born after his death and my great grandmother was heavily pregnant with him when she got the telegram. These tragic little details still move one a century later.

Judith Johnson link
25/8/2018 03:19:49 am

Dear John, thanks for that. Yes, indeed they do, the tragic little details. I recently visited the South Wales Borderers Museum in Brecon, and there were some very touching things there, including a teddy-bear found in the trenches at Gallipoli during the evacuation by British forces...

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Prof John Simons
25/8/2018 05:13:16 am

The durability of memory. For anyone who knows Tunbridge Wells Fred Harmer did leave some visible traces. He was an ornamental plasterer and worked on the extremely ornate decoration of the Opera House. When I was growing up it was a cinema and then became a bingo hall. I remember going there many times to see films with my parents and looking at the plaster work with pride. The last I knew it was a pub. There also used to be a pub called the Greyhound just off Upper Grosvenor Road and that had a stone greyhound by way of a sign. I've no idea if it's still there. I was always told that Fred Harmer made that. It seems more likely that he fixed it in place - but who knows? I can imagine his children (in the 60s 7 of them were still alive and I knew them) being told about their Daddy as they walked past it. Certainly my grandmother - his daughter Queenie - always mentioned it whenever we went by.

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Judith Johnson link
25/8/2018 06:06:11 am

Sadly, a post from KentLive news last month showed that The Greyhound is no more:
https://www.kentlive.news/whats-on/food-drink/greyhound-kelsey-arms-9-gone-1779617

You might like to read of Frank Brown, listed on Southborough War Memorial. He was a bricklayer who worked on the Opera House, and his family also lived in Silverdale Rd, so it is likely they knew the Harmers:

http://www.judithjohnson.co.uk/additional.html

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Prof John Simons
25/8/2018 06:16:21 am

Thanks Judith. I knew all of those pubs and had a (sometimes underage) drink or two in all of them. You can see the greyhound I mentioned in that photo. I suppose it was just smashed up. I will certainly follow up on Frank Brown - you're right, it's very likely he'd have known my great grandfather and his family.

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lorraine
25/8/2018 06:43:50 am

love your artuclr and all the comments. I relate from a survivor but have researched many fsmily who did not survive

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Lorraine Gettings
26/9/2018 09:31:17 am

Such a lot of interesting reading here. My GGGranddad was onboard but survived. He was taken prisoner of war after this ordeal. He lost his big toe due to "being shot off by the turks in Galippoli" later in life he had his lower leg amputated.

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Judith Johnson link
27/9/2018 11:53:48 am

Hi Lorraine, thanks very much for your kind words and for adding the information about your GGGrandad. I’d love to know his name if you were happy to share it. All best, Judith

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Lorraine Gettings
27/9/2018 12:19:29 pm

Hey Juduth... my gggrandfather was Charles Joseph Saunders. Lived at 47 High st Rusthall. We are also related to a few others but chrles is the one i know most about.

Lorraine

Prof John Simons
26/9/2018 02:05:02 pm

That's a fascinating story.

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Steve Smith link
27/2/2020 02:59:17 am

I've just come across this blog during my current research project. I wonder if you knew that Southburgh Toc H branch's Lamp of Maintenance was dedicated 'To those who gave their lives at the sinking of the "Hythe," 28.10.1915'. It was given to the branch by the mother and sister of Capt. R. D. Salomons, R.E., and friends and was bestowed when the group were awarded branch status on 17th October 1933. It was first lit by the Prince of Wales (Patron of Toc H) at the annual lamp-lighting festival at the Royal Albert Hall on 9th December 1933. I don't know its fate (yet, part of my project is tracking them all down) and could like to know what happened to it if anyone else does know.

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Judith Johnson link
28/2/2020 11:59:39 am

Hi Steve, and many thanks for the fascinating information. I have visited Talbot House in Poperinghe, and I included the Toc H Hall in High Brooms in my guided war walk of the town, but was unaware that Toc H lamps were actually lit. Would you like me to post your comment on the High Brooms Facebook page in case anyone living locally has any idea of the lamp's whereabouts?

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Steve Smith link
28/2/2020 12:06:38 pm

Please do. I actually visited High Brooms branch a few years back and was in touch with the chap who ran it (Duncan??) but I think he may be dead now. It does give me an idea of a few leads to follow up though but if anyone else has any ideas I'd love to hear them. many thanks.

Where is Karla link
14/12/2020 07:40:40 pm

Good readiing this post

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James K Waghorne
31/7/2021 05:42:04 pm

My Grandfather was on the HMS Hythe. Sapper Sydney James Waghorne. A survivor, he spent the rest of the war attached to the 29th Division until January 1919.

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Judith Johnson link
29/9/2021 12:29:47 pm

Thank you for posting a comment, James. Your grandfather must have had vivid memories of his ordeal, bless him.

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JENNIFER PATTERSON
23/4/2022 10:42:14 pm

I am a granddaughter of Albert Henry Wakeford - my Mum and Dad were Geoffrey and Beatrice Scott [ nee Wakeford ] originally from Rusthall. We lived with Gran Wakeford for a while after WW2 ended. I now live in Australia and was so excited to read that I have relatives in Ontario and Pensylvannia still living. I would love to hear from them.

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Judith Johnson link
26/4/2022 08:28:03 am

Hi Jennifer, and thanks very much for leaving a comment. Wonderful that the blog has reached another descendant of Albert Henry Wakeford. I hope that some of your relatives might get in touch with you.

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    Lifelong bookworm, love writing too. Have been a theatrical agent and reflexologist among other things, attitude to life summed up by Walt Whitman's MIRACLES.

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